Epicycles and Retrograde Motion

The sun also rises, and the sun goes down, And hastens to the place where it arose.

(Ecclesiastes 1:5) NKJV

In the time we’ve spent arguing on Twitter one of the points of contention is: which is real, epicycles or retrograde motion? Arguments get nowhere because the answer is: both, depending on your frame of reference.

The relative position of planetary bodies remains constant at all times. However, depending on your frame of reference (point of view) the relative motion that you observe is going to be different.

The difference between retrograde motion and an epicycle is the frame of reference.

The .gif above shows 3 dots, blue, red and yellow. They represent the Earth, Mars and the sun. They remain in the same relative position with each other on both sides of the animation at all times. The relative motion is different because on the left the frame of reference is the yellow dot. On the right the frame of reference is the blue dot.

  1. Retrograde motion. The left side of the diagram illustrates a heliocentric, sun-centered, system. The motion of the red dot goes retrograde once during the time that the blue dot orbits the yellow dot twice.
  2. Epicycle. The right side of the diagram illustrates a Geocentrospheric, Earth-centered, system. The red dot does an epicycle in the time that the yellow dot orbits the blue dot twice.

The relative position of the three bodies is the same, the relative motion is dependent on the frame of reference. Epicycles and retrograde motion are two ways to describe the same thing, from different points of view. It would seem that the modern mind can’t grasp this concept. And then there are those people who really don’t know anything about epicycles or retrograde motion, they just like to argue: trolls.

The Cluelessness Event Horizon and Retrograde Motion

  • SaveTroll: Apparent retrograde motion is an observable fact Matty.
  • Matty: Your use of the words “apparent,” and “fact,” in the same sentence proves that your statement is an attempt to intimidate me by bluffing, it is not based on actually understanding the subject matter.
  • Troll: I have an observable fact: retrograde motion. We differ on the interpretation. It all depends on your point of view.
  • Matty: Retrograde motion is not the fact. Retrograde motion is how you have interpreted the observation.
  • Troll: The observation is the observation matty. We are not disputing this. We differ on our interpretation of this observation. And mine is better.
  • Matty: You still fail basic comprehension of the issue. Both explanations are happening at the same time, it depends on your frame of reference. If you were on the sun, you would be observing retrograde motion. Since you’re not, you’re on the earth, you are observing an epicycle.
  • Troll: What’s an epicycle?
  • Matty: I’m sorry, you appear to have passed the Cluelessness Event Horizon.

The Cluelessness Event Horizon (CEH) – Navigation

The Cluelessness Event HorizonProverbs 29:9
1The Mass of the SunPsalms 104:22
Calculating the Lifetime of the SunLeviticus 19:36
2Epicycles and Retrograde MotionEcclesiastes 1:5
3The Stratigraphic ColumnGenesis 7:4
4Established Science1 Timothy 6:20
SalvationRomans 10:9-10
– Navigate your way around the CEH.

July 22nd – The Cluelessness Event Horizon (CEH)

The supposed intellectual high ground of popular science (SciPop) has no knowledge base. We’re witnessing a mass migration across the CEH.

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